Candy Core Mine Rush

myninja527 · 11-01-2012, 07:27 AM

Aaron, I will invite you guys tonight. My Partner thinks he knows how to counter it...we can both start game against each other...BTW, I am very frustrated to not be a 2 v 2 Master yet, we have beaten the only super titans and are in the process of taking three of three vs Alvendor and Blueswimmer. Albeit, FTA won them all, not us!

Alvendor · (This post was last modified: 11-01-2012 08:43 AM by Alvendor.)

(11-01-2012 07:27 AM)texadian5223 Wrote: Aaron, I will invite you guys tonight. My Partner thinks he knows how to counter it...we can both start game against each other...BTW, I am very frustrated to not be a 2 v 2 Master yet, we have beaten the only super titans and are in the process of taking three of three vs Alvendor and Blueswimmer. Albeit, FTA won them all, not us!

I would advice you not to bet your house on winning the third game Tongue

(10-31-2012 03:55 PM)worldfamous Wrote: That's actually pretty easy to deal with. Just set up like I did here and the rest will play out fine.

As CombatEx said, the turn order is different here. But the replay made me think, maybe if you ignore the witspace for one round and make a medic that boosts the sniper before moving it closer? Will try it out..

(11-01-2012 05:05 AM)aaronINdayton Wrote: This rush looks really tough to defend, I'd like to see if worldfamous can indeed defend it! Please invite him and his normal partner and/or him and myself (aaronINdayton GC tag) to a friendly!

Here is the second game we played so you can avoid repeating our mistakes! I still haven't stopped kicking myself for screwing up in the end

Rush defense: second attempt

Mr.Banger · 11-01-2012, 09:14 AM

(11-01-2012 07:27 AM)texadian5223 Wrote: Aaron, I will invite you guys tonight. My Partner thinks he knows how to counter it...we can both start game against each other...BTW, I am very frustrated to not be a 2 v 2 Master yet, we have beaten the only super titans and are in the process of taking three of three vs Alvendor and Blueswimmer. Albeit, FTA won them all, not us!

Indeed. I remember that game. We lost a ton of points and probably skill sting for that loss. Props to you guys for winning that game and I'm not making any excuses but there was a laps in communication with my partner that would've saved the sniper and I think that was the deciding moment .

kz0511 · 11-01-2012, 03:16 PM

The usual rushes i hate, but easily counterable, usually sacrificing sniper to defend this. You need to move the sniper for defending againts heavy.

worldfamous · (This post was last modified: 11-01-2012 03:50 PM by worldfamous.)

(11-01-2012 08:23 AM)Alvendor Wrote:
(11-01-2012 07:27 AM)texadian5223 Wrote: Aaron, I will invite you guys tonight. My Partner thinks he knows how to counter it...we can both start game against each other...BTW, I am very frustrated to not be a 2 v 2 Master yet, we have beaten the only super titans and are in the process of taking three of three vs Alvendor and Blueswimmer. Albeit, FTA won them all, not us!

I would advice you not to bet your house on winning the third game

(10-31-2012 03:55 PM)worldfamous Wrote: That's actually pretty easy to deal with. Just set up like I did here and the rest will play out fine.

As CombatEx said, the turn order is different here. But the replay made me think, maybe if you ignore the witspace for one round and make a medic that boosts the sniper before moving it closer? Will try it out..

(11-01-2012 05:05 AM)aaronINdayton Wrote: This rush looks really tough to defend, I'd like to see if worldfamous can indeed defend it! Please invite him and his normal partner and/or him and myself (aaronINdayton GC tag) to a friendly!

Here is the second game we played so you can avoid repeating our mistakes! I still haven't stopped kicking myself for screwing up in the end

Rush defense: second attempt

Your teammate needs to boost the sniper every time on that map. You will lose the wit space defending the initial rush but we've honestly never had trouble with it. I'll take a closer look at the replay and expand on my comments. As far as I know, the turn order is always the same on that map. It may start with 3-4 instead of 1-2, but its the same thing. Like I said, ill take a closer look.
Edit: I see what you mean about the different turn order. I believe we still did the same thing however my teammate spawned a runner to protect his medic, which was exposed as he had to move up to heal. I can't say for sure but I know we've successfully defended. We went through a stretch of games where our opponents tried it every time and then it seemed to fade away as our level grew higher. Who knows, maybe it's improved now and making a comeback. Ill post any replays if it comes up again. The one thing I know about that map is YOU BOOST THAT SNIPER NO MATTER WHAT.

worldfamous · (This post was last modified: 11-02-2012 02:21 AM by worldfamous.)

Ok I just ran it in pass n play and the best setup seems to be the one I described where you do the setup I did in the replay and then your teammate moves heavy to wit, move healer up to boost sniper, and spawn runner to front exposed healer. I don't see where they can go from there.
Here's a photo. I actually moved the sniper instead of spawning another runner at the end of P3 turn but, irrelevant. [Image: 2exphyq.jpg]

CombatEX · (This post was last modified: 11-02-2012 04:40 AM by CombatEX.)

I just realized something about turn order.

At first I thought that the turns were mirrored and there were simply 2 starting orders. P1 on team 1, P2 on team 2 that mirrors P1's setup, P3 on team 1, P4 on team 2 that mirrors P3's setup. Then the alternate would be P3 on team 1, P4 on team 2 that mirrors P3's setup, P1 on team 1, P2 on team 2 that mirrors P1's setup.

Actually it turns out the second team's player order is randomly assigned independently of the first team's so this means there are 4 different opening orders. Maybe OML should restrict to the two mirror openings. Why? Well if you think about this in terms of 1v1 it would be like telling P1 on SFI that they can only move their medic and soldier on their first turn, but P2 can only move their heavy. Then on each players' second turn, P1 can only move the heavy while P2 can only move the soldier and medic. It doesn't make sense balance-wise.

Alvendor · 11-02-2012, 06:42 AM

(11-01-2012 05:04 PM)worldfamous Wrote: Ok I just ran it in pass n play and the best setup seems to be the one I described where you do the setup I did in the replay and then your teammate moves heavy to wit, move healer up to boost sniper, and spawn runner to front exposed healer. I don't see where they can go from there.
Here's a photo. I actually moved the sniper instead of spawning another runner at the end of P3 turn but, irrelevant.

Do you only use one medic or will you ultimately have one each?

Think boosted soldiers are a must to defend the wit space otherwise they will eat you up with snipers. So I have always been using double medics.

If going for double medics, I still kind of like the play to ignore the wit space and spawn a medic. You will loose one wit, but the other option for P4 to move the medic to boost your sniper and then move it again to boost his units, that will cost 2 wits. Thoughts?

worldfamous · 11-02-2012, 07:27 AM

(11-02-2012 06:42 AM)Alvendor Wrote:
(11-01-2012 05:04 PM)worldfamous Wrote: Ok I just ran it in pass n play and the best setup seems to be the one I described where you do the setup I did in the replay and then your teammate moves heavy to wit, move healer up to boost sniper, and spawn runner to front exposed healer. I don't see where they can go from there.
Here's a photo. I actually moved the sniper instead of spawning another runner at the end of P3 turn but, irrelevant.
Do you only use one medic or will you ultimately have one each?

Think boosted soldiers are a must to defend the wit space otherwise they will eat you up with snipers. So I have always been using double medics.

If going for double medics, I still kind of like the play to ignore the wit space and spawn a medic. You will loose one wit, but the other option for P4 to move the medic to boost your sniper and then move it again to boost his units, that will cost 2 wits. Thoughts?

For candy core, we rarely add a second medic. If its a game where both teams are taking their time setting up, we will occasionally add a second medic. On Blitz, we always add the second medic on the first turn. Machination, never. I feel the 2 wits spent moving the medic are worth it since you effectively kill that rush by doing so. Also, we don't immediately move the medic back into position. We'll leave him there and heal whatever units are in the neighborhood and then move him back when the time is right and the cost is not detrimental.