How to counter runner spamming when moving second?

MrUseless · 09-11-2012, 12:57 PM

Because I only play a couple games at a time, I nearly always go second. (I guess there is a way to go first by starting lots of games at the same time, never tried it). Anyway, I often come up against players who are spamming me with runners, and since I'm going second I'm on defense the whole game until someone makes a mistake or I just fall behind.

Any good strategies for dealing with this? It seems especially prevalent on maps with two spawn points, but I'm sure most of you know this.

pookywb · 09-11-2012, 02:22 PM

Soldiers and blocking your base with a meat shield are the two most important things to do.

Buffed runners are also often an effective counter to runners.

MrUseless · 09-11-2012, 02:33 PM

My problem seems to be that I just can't keep up. I think I end up behind because I spend my first turn putting out runners so I have decent vision of the map. Then my opponent kills my runners, and I'm behind. If I choose to build soldiers or buffed runners, instead of killing his runners, I usually either lose points to my base, a higher value unit like a sniper, or a wit space, depending on the map.

I'm thinking that when playing second I should forego vision for soldiers or buffed runners, then build vision in later turns....

Eijolend · 09-11-2012, 08:20 PM

A mix of Soldiers and Runners crushes pure Runner-Spam. Yeah you might lose a sniper or medic and some base hit points if you're opponent plays it clever, but if he doesn't transition out of it early enough you will have an overwhelming unit advantage.

wonderpug · (This post was last modified: 09-12-2012 12:09 AM by wonderpug.)

He's spending 3 wits every time he spawns a new runner, moves it, then kills one of your runners. Keep on matching those 3 wits with your own runners taking out his, but also work on moving a soldier into position, or moving a medic in place to boost your next runner.

As soon as you get to kill his runner with a soldier or with a 2hp runner, you've won the runner fight, and you'll probably be in a better overall position than him.

Oh, and with regards to this:

(09-11-2012 02:33 PM)MrUseless Wrote: My problem seems to be that I just can't keep up. I think I end up behind because I spend my first turn putting out runners so I have decent vision of the map. Then my opponent kills my runners, and I'm behind.

It sounds like you're sticking your initial scouting runners too far forward. If the runner exchanges are happening closer to his base, that favors him. Try moving your first runner ahead just 3 spaces from your spawn to scout. Now if he kills that guy with his own runner, you can spawn a soldier to take out his runner. You're improving your overall board positioning, and he's essentially just wasting his wits.

MrUseless · 09-12-2012, 01:51 AM

Here's the replay of the latest game where I lost by mostly runner spam. Seemed like I was doing okay up until about turn 8, maybe got too aggressive at that point? Critiques are welcome!

outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Yk76oAQw

pookywb · 09-12-2012, 08:02 AM

Turn 4, moving your soldier was likely unnecessary.

I agree that turn 8 was too agressive. If you had been able to move onto the spawn space, that might have forced your opponent to use more wits to defend left. But without the capability to do so, your opponent can simply pop out whatever unit they want. Heavy? Sniper? Yeah.

Turn 10, you knew the position of his sniper. And you moved too close. :/ And looking at your constellations of units at that point, yes you have a lot of soldiers, which is a great thing, but they are really only blocking the 2 rightmost columns of hexes. A better defensive constellation would involve blocking the middle with those same units.

Turn 16, do you need a new runner?

Turn 18, nice job getting that sniper. Unfortunately, you're getting too close to the spawn point again, and your opponent was able to chew through your soldier. Attacking the runner with a soldier and the sniper with a runner would have made your position a little safer.

Turn 22 was pretty solid. Moving your runner on the OTHER side of Blue's runner would have given you better positioning though, as you could shoot his counter runner with your sniper in turn 24.

Take back your wit space as soon as possible. It's hard to keep up otherwise.

So yeah, at the beginning, you made a fair amount of soldiers. That's definitely half the battle right there. Positioning those soldiers is the other half.

garcia1000 · 09-12-2012, 11:33 AM

On turn 4, your soldier defended the wit point. Then, you moved it so it didnt defend the wit point

MrUseless · 09-14-2012, 10:53 AM

Thanks Pookywb, great analysis. I agree with almost all your points.
Lately I've been making more mistakes like this. I don't know if my opponents are getting better, or if I'm just not thinking through my moves as clearly.

CommandConquerer · 09-14-2012, 07:44 PM

I don't see TOO much of a problem from a deployment point of view, although it costed you an unnecessary wit.

Turn 6, much more efficient if you kill the runner on your spawn point with the sniper, then spawn a runner/soldier to kill the one next to your base. You save 1 wit (not having to move the runner to attack), and also keeps the runner on the right, giving you extra vision.