Plateau or ceiling? Can't move up Master ranks any farther!

[wonderpug]

Alvendor's question to you is a good one. I'd recommend answering him before you read my commentary below. :)

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No peeking until you finish your Alvendor homework! ;)

(12-05-2012 01:46 AM)jaxxinjr Wrote:  One for now, thx!

outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y4Ov7AQw

Turn 2 - don't move your medic onto your spawn point. You're hindering your options for your next turn, and since you're going to have to move your medic again to use your spawn point, you're making that boosted runner cost an extra wit. For those two wits, you could have spawned and moved a whole new runner.

Turn 4 - even if Mi-Cho didn't sprout a thorn in your field of view, you should be alarmed by the very short replay of Turn 3, and expected he spawned a special unit. Also, if you really wanted to kill his runner with yours, place your runner on the other side so he can't kill him as easily. As-is, he can sniper him for free, or even without the sniper, the next unit he spawns will be able to get a free kill on your runner. If your runner was on the other side it'd take an extra wit to kill him.

Turn 8 - you completely ignored his taking of your wit space. It was in your power to take it back that turn

Turn 10 - Pretty good moves until the very end. You should have reclaimed your bonus wit space

Turn 12 - not a bad move in a vacuum, but you're very aware of the firepower he has in the middle of the map, and you should be feeling extremely vulnerable on the middle. Time to beef up some defenses rather than stretching out your offense. Maybe spawn a soldier or even a heavy to stick on your bonus wit space

You've pretty much already lost the match at this point. Those early blunders can really cost you in the long run.

[aaronINdayton]

I'd recommend practicing the maps you're not confident in.

[GoHeat 3]

I don't feel like this question is worth making another thread, plus it's on the same topic so ill ask it here, Do you have to have an insanely high win percentage to make it to ST or do you just have to consistently win?

[jaxxinjr]

Alvendor et all,

Thanks for sharing some of your time to review my replay and comments. I took the advice to read viva fringe's Guide to outwitter math, which I have not seen before and found extremely helpful. In my play I've had a sense that I am missing some key points about the balance of power and wits, but couldn't put my finger on them exactly. So that guide makes a number of these matters much more clear.

In light of the guide, I would critique my play in the posted replay as follows:

1. In general (in all matches), I undervalue the power of wits and the import of holding wit spaces. Many times I will leave a wit space in the hands of the opponent for a couple of turns or so, thinking that I could better use my current wits in an ongoing strike operation or some other strategy. Over a few turns this can become a dangerous advantage to the opponent.

2. In this game specifically I saw in an early turn that he spent most of his wits on thorns. I am still learning how to play against bramble, but at that point I thought he would be underpowered due to spending six or eight wits on Thorns. So I attempted a lightning strike, but as viva fringes guide makes clear I chose a bad path, straight at the heart of his spawn spots and defense. He was able to fend me off and kill a few key units while spawning even more units. I had attacked on a whim and the lack of coherent strategy carried on the rest of the game. I still ALMOST managed to squeak the win, but probably wouldn't have deserved it...

3. In general again, I probably don't keep aware of my opponents "outwitters math" as closely as needed. In this match, once he had such an advantage my only hope would be to spawn some serious units as fast as possible and hope he makes some mistakes. Because I wasn't following his math closely, I was somewhat nonchalant in spawning runners and trying little nuisance runs and other piecemeal tactics here and there.


Please, any rebuttals, further critiques, further reading recommendations greatly appreciated! Any tips on devising a high level strategy? and then adapting it in play?

Thanks again!

[wonderpug]

Re: #1
The wit spaces are a big deal. If you lose your space, you're not just losing one wit per turn; you're invoking a deficit of two wits between you and your opponent (since he's getting one extra wit and you're getting one less). That means every turn he gets a free soldier, or two free movements compared to you. That's a lot!

[Alvendor]

Good analysis, this is what you need to be doing for every game you loose. Figure out why you lost and try to formulate it in words to a principle that you can use in future games.

(12-06-2012 11:15 AM)jaxxinjr Wrote:  1. In general (in all matches), I undervalue the power of wits and the import of holding wit spaces.

Yep, letting the opponents take the tile and you retake it directly can be ok. If you let the opponent have the wit space for several turns you will loose the game.

(12-06-2012 11:15 AM)jaxxinjr Wrote:  2. I thought he would be underpowered due to spending six or eight wits on Thorns. So I attempted a lightning strike, but as viva fringes guide makes clear I chose a bad path, straight at the heart of his spawn spots and defense.

Now this is one of the principles you should be collecting:
"If the opponent spend too much on thorns I could just attack as he will not have enough wits to defend."
When you start using the attack paths from viva fringes guide your skill level will take a huge leap forward!

So one part of the game is having these different principles/strategies how you handle different situations. The other part is the tactics, the exact moves you do to implement your longer term plan. You need to learn how to value different units at different situations in wits. By doing that you can calculate if you can kill a unit profitable or not. This became much harder after the wit-for-kill change, but start small.

On turn 4, why did you kill his runner? Can you add up how many wits you lost on the trade, and how many wits the opponent lost including his runner and killing you?

Turn 14 is a bit worrisome, why did you first kill the thorns on you spawn space and then move the soldier to kill the parent thorn when you could have done that directly. If the answer is, "oh I just had a total brain freeze" that's ok, I have those too =). But if not, this is something you need to fix, you can't make those kind of mistakes if you want to compete with high masters. Could it be that you don't spend enough time thinking about the situation before you move? You should either have all moves planned out before you move, or have a couple for variations planned out but move out with a unit for more vision before you choose between them.

Good Luck on climbing the ranks!

[jaxxinjr]

Alvendor and friends,

One more replay if you don't mind. In this game I thought I had a pretty strong offense and defense but was somewhat easily overrun. Is it just the snipers that I let move so far forward, something deeper about outwitters math, my balance between offense and defense, or being too reactionary versus putting offensive pressure on him? Not sure here...

Thanks again!


(Sorry, don't know how to link)
outwitters://viewgame?id=ag5vdXR3aXR0ZXJzZ2FtZXIRCxIIR2FtZVJvb20Y_KyIAgw

[joelduque]

(12-08-2012 04:23 AM)jaxxinjr Wrote:  Alvendor and friends,

One more replay if you don't mind. In this game I thought I had a pretty strong offense and defense but was somewhat easily overrun. Is it just the snipers that I let move so far forward, something deeper about outwitters math, my balance between offense and defense, or being too reactionary versus putting offensive pressure on him? Not sure here...

Thanks again!

LINK TO REPLAY

Please fix the link.

1. Avoid leaving a unit right next to an enemy unit. If it's a one-hit kill, then you just gave your enemy a significant advantage.
2. Boost your soldiers. 4 (hp) is a magic number. The additional wit spent really goes a long way. It makes enemy spend 3 wits vs. 1 wit, netting you 1 wit. Also 2 of his units would be closer to your units, you will have to spend less wits to close the distance and go for the kill.
3. Have a goal in mind. Get the initiative especially when you are p1. Offense is also a form of defense. Remember that when you accumulate wits and turns, your opponents also does. Save wits but keep what I said in the previous sentence in mind.
4. Keep map control especially the bonus wit spaces and center of the map.
5. If you found a good opponent, you can invite them to friendlies. No points at stake but if you play it seriously enough, your skill still improves.
6. Most importantly, have fun. It is easier to think that way. Rest when you feel burned out. Don't take games personally and keep humble!