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+--- Thread: actual league change (/showthread.php?tid=1583)
actual league change - $till - 01-29-2013 01:16 PM
does anybody know specifically how OML changed the league points system? I would be delighted to know
RE: actual league change - Ser Purple Wolf - 01-29-2013 01:17 PM
(01-29-2013 10:57 AM)onealexleft Wrote: A bit more info on the leaderboards:
As it stands right now, it's somewhat of a zero-sum game. Anyone lower than rank 50 typically has zero points. We're looking to improve this so it's a bit more reflective of how you've done against other players in your division.
The new change still works similarly, in that you get more points for beating a higher ranked player and stand to lose more if you beat a lower ranked player. The change is that your league points are now considered in that calculation along with your skill rating.
For example, if you're a master league player and you face another master leaguer and a Super Titan:
- If the master league player has a ton of points (typically in the top of their division), a win against him is weighed more against a Super Titan that has close to zero points. So you stand to win way more points against someone who is not only ranked in a higher league, but also has more points (and therefore has more wins).
- In short, we're hoping that your league and your division points become reflective of your skill and help differentiate players a bit more. A 1000 point Master Leaguer should be more skilled than a 300 point Master Leaguer (assuming similar time played).
Some interesting properties this change will bring about when facing similarly skilled players:
- Holding your #1 rank in your division will become more difficult. The reason being once you have a lot of points, you gain points more slowly due to being 'ahead of the pack' and you lose way more points for losses. Those at the bottom of the division with few points can gain points more quickly against those with more points than them.
- Should allow a bit more churn and therefore more lively competition in divisions. Since point gain/loss is inversely magnified the higher you go in divisions, those that got huge leads at the beginning of seasons are no longer 'safe' later in the season as new players join and quickly rise up the ranks if they have the win ratio to make it.
RE: actual league change - GreatGonzales - 01-29-2013 01:30 PM
Waaaaait a second. Why should someone get more points from beating a Masters league player than a Super Titan, EVER? All that should matter is the hidden skill ranking IMO. The amount of points you get should be purely derived from the level of accomplishment; it is a greater accomplishment to defeat a ST than a Masters, always, assuming that the league assignment is correct for the respective players.
That said...I don't personally care about the division ranking, so if the consensus is in favor of this change, okeedoke.
RE: actual league change - QuantumApocalypse - 01-29-2013 01:34 PM
(01-29-2013 01:30 PM)GreatGonzales Wrote: Waaaaait a second. Why should someone get more points from beating a Masters league player than a Super Titan, EVER? All that should matter is the hidden skill ranking IMO. The amount of points you get should be purely derived from the level of accomplishment; it is a greater accomplishment to defeat a ST than a Masters, always, assuming that the league assignment is correct for the respective players.
That said...I don't personally care about the division ranking, so if the consensus is in favor of this change, okeedoke.
It is probably just the displayed league points being altered
The hidden ranking scheme probably wouldn't have changed.
RE: actual league change - CombatEX - 01-29-2013 02:41 PM
(01-29-2013 01:30 PM)GreatGonzales Wrote: Waaaaait a second. Why should someone get more points from beating a Masters league player than a Super Titan, EVER? All that should matter is the hidden skill ranking IMO. The amount of points you get should be purely derived from the level of accomplishment; it is a greater accomplishment to defeat a ST than a Masters, always, assuming that the league assignment is correct for the respective players.
That said...I don't personally care about the division ranking, so if the consensus is in favor of this change, okeedoke.
Well, I agree that all that should matter is hidden-rating, however that does mean you should be able to get more points from beating a Masters player than a Super-Titan as many Masters players are rated more highly than Super-Titans and just have yet to be promoted (grrrr). But yes, it seems weird to discover that points aren't determined purely by hidden-rating! Aren't points supposed to be reflective of skill? And isn't the best way to do that by looking at a player's true skill rating?
RE: actual league change - alexjiang1 - 01-29-2013 03:30 PM
^lol, ya I dont understand Szei youre ranked higher than so many STs
RE: actual league change - Necrocat219 - 01-29-2013 11:35 PM
It would be much better if points were only decided by points and not at all by hidden rating - what we had the pre-update was just based on hidden rating, resulting in players rising from Fluffy/Clever to Master/ST having much higher amounts of points than any other player in their division regardless of who's the better player. In a point only system with the no. of points of both players directly affecting it completely separate to hidden ranking it would begin to reflect the actual top 200 but withing each league. Of course there would be variances but it would be much more accurate with the exeption of when I player just rises/gains a league, at which they would be 'reset' from everyone of equal hidden rating having far lower points e.g. Top Master player vs Bottom ST player.
RE: actual league change - Piko - 01-29-2013 11:46 PM
I had a funny situation today - I started a random league 2v2 game with... three masters (I'm
atm), lol. Anyone had similar one?
RE: actual league change - phineas94 - 01-30-2013 12:36 AM
(01-29-2013 02:41 PM)CombatEX Wrote:(01-29-2013 01:30 PM)GreatGonzales Wrote: Waaaaait a second. Why should someone get more points from beating a Masters league player than a Super Titan, EVER? All that should matter is the hidden skill ranking IMO. The amount of points you get should be purely derived from the level of accomplishment; it is a greater accomplishment to defeat a ST than a Masters, always, assuming that the league assignment is correct for the respective players.
That said...I don't personally care about the division ranking, so if the consensus is in favor of this change, okeedoke.
Well, I agree that all that should matter is hidden-rating, however that does mean you should be able to get more points from beating a Masters player than a Super-Titan as many Masters players are rated more highly than Super-Titans and just have yet to be promoted (grrrr). But yes, it seems weird to discover that points aren't determined purely by hidden-rating! Aren't points supposed to be reflective of skill? And isn't the best way to do that by looking at a player's true skill rating?
For those of us to be lucky/skilled enough to be in the top 200 we have our progress/decline against our peers posted every week which as I understand it is based purely on the hidden rating. The league system point allocation previously did not provide a "league" picture merely form. In my opinion it was meaningless and only there to provide someone not in the top 200 something to look at. Now we are getting close to a system that provides true league standings to some extent separate from the hidden ranking system.
As for more points against a high ranked master versus a 0 point ST Szei is the case in point. I'm sure you'd still get a decent score against an ST though