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8 is too much!!! - Printable Version

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RE: 8 is too much!!! - Necrocat219 - 11-20-2012 12:01 PM

(11-20-2012 11:55 AM)Emuchu Wrote:  
(11-20-2012 11:35 AM)garcia1000 Wrote:  Thanks for your opinion, but given the choice between math and your opinion I am still going with math!

It's true! What we have now can't possibly be worse than what we had before. Ravernoth was crunching the heck out of those numbers and showing everyone all the time everywhere.

What Sasquatch is experiencing is probably just a case of one of the following:
a) "The-rules-are-different-wtf-am-I-doing-itis"
b) "Lol-lookit-all-these-wits-TURN2SPECIAL-tosis"
c) "Getting-stomped-on-by-a-stronger-player-calling-hax-enza"
d) "Groan-I-dun-wanna-change-my-strategy-to-adapt-ola"

Or maybe even a combination of all of the above? I know I'm experiencing all these psychological illnesses in varying degrees.

Lol That was somewhat funny to read Smile

RE: 8 is too much!!! - Emuchu - 11-20-2012 12:03 PM

(11-20-2012 12:01 PM)Necrocat219 Wrote:  Lol That was somewhat funny to read Smile

I was starting to run out of disease suffixes, haha!

RE: 8 is too much!!! - worldfamous - 11-20-2012 12:13 PM

I know I spent my first 2 weeks saying the supers were too expensive(I even emailed OML). Then I spent the next 2 weeks saying, ok it's just right for 1v1 but impossible to buy one in 2v2. After time I realize the prices are just right as you will likely feel the 8 wits is just right.

RE: 8 is too much!!! - GreatGonzales - 11-20-2012 01:48 PM

Really, I think perfect FTA would be something closer to 8.5-9 wits for second player. But 8 is good enough I predict...time will tell of course.

RE: 8 is too much!!! - garcia1000 - 11-20-2012 03:06 PM

Neutral wit FTA would be 8 on small maps and 8.5 on large maps.
Then you need to give 2P slightly more wit to compensate for the first player's initiative.

RE: 8 is too much!!! - Promicide - 11-20-2012 03:58 PM

Too soon to say in my opinion as well, but I like it so far..

RE: 8 is too much!!! - Eijolend - 11-20-2012 05:59 PM

8 feels good. It allows you to prevent the P1-shenanigans that were so common before the patch, while still being able to stay even in unit count. (Before you could choose one or the other)
I think a lot of those crazy P1 opening moves will see a lot less use in the future.

While it's too early to say anything definite, it sure feels a lot better than before the patch.

RE: 8 is too much!!! - AJaW96 - 11-20-2012 07:04 PM

I think 8 is a good number, if P1 is overly aggressive in their first turn they can be severely punished thanks to the new +1 Wit/Kill rule. I play Feedback, even though I could spawn a Scrambler in my first turn I never do, too risky for a runner sneaky ninja attack.

RE: 8 is too much!!! - Harti - 11-20-2012 09:13 PM

The rule is balanced as-is. Period.

RE: 8 is too much!!! - Necrocat219 - 11-20-2012 09:48 PM

(10-06-2012 05:07 AM)Necrocat219 Wrote:  Okay so that this isn't too long to read and as straight to the point as possible, turn based games have two types of FTA: Positional first turn advantage and materialistic first turn advantage. I think you understand the first from the extensive explanations that Harti gave a while back, but mainly as them being able to target the medic or the sniper for their attacks. That seems to be why you think that 5+3 wits as player 2 is a good solution.

Now to explain why I love a 7 or 8 wit start for player 2: Materialistic first turn advantage. This is as I classify it, how many wits you have to spend on units and move in comparison to your opponent. This is a 1 vs 1 or a 2 vs 2 game, so for that you can directly see if you're winning or losing a game by comparing how well you are doing.

In 1.1 right now, both Player 1 and 2 have 5 wits to start. Seems fair enough? over the turns all the variables may point to player 1 or 2 having an advantage or not. Lets pretend neither player makes any moves and see who has how many wits more than the other on each turn and put it on a nice neat little graph. If the results are above 0, player 1 has the advantage. If the results are below 0, player 2 has the advantage...

[Image: Witadvantageplayer1.png]

Now hang on a minute, the results all seem to be above 0, implying that P1 has the advantage in wits on his turns but it's equal on P2's turns! Lets add a line of average in to see if that sorts things out...

[Image: Witadvantageplayer1-1.png]

Hmm... It seems that P1 over the course of both players turns can be said to have an avarage of 2.5 wits over the course of both players turns.

This was why the number 7 or 8 wits for player 2 was suggested; to counter this 2.5 wit advantage; 2.5 wits is ideal, but you can't have half wits in this game so 2 or 3 extra are the best improvise

I hope you understood my explanation Smile