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+--- Thread: League rankings + promotions: suggestions and ideas for change (/showthread.php?tid=647)
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RE: League rankings + promotions: suggestions and ideas for change - Samura| - 10-01-2012 04:53 PM
Cool so it seems that the consensus view is for an improved matchmaking system with tougher matchups sooner, so as to steer disproportionately high W/L ratios towards 50/50. So in terms of priority of fixes, hopefully that's something OML can put through relatively quickly.
I agree with some of you who've said 30-40 games perhaps isn't that much of a grind. After all, in most games a big part of the fun is building up your character or working your way up the rankings (although usually the difficulty level continues to rise perhaps at a faster pace). Having said that, something that does annoy players is where they slowly work their way up a step at a time, but then find others leapfrogging them by using some kind of loophole/gap in the system. As Luckymori pointed out above, it seems anyone can start out in Masters using the method in his post. I suppose these are improvements that can come in the future, there are other things of greater importance, but I think these fixes could help the game's retention rate of players.
On the issue about revamping the points system, I've seen a fair number of posts (perhaps mostly newer players) from players who are frustrated with their lack of understanding about how promotions work, and about how silly it is to be promoted to a new league and already be in the top 10, hence why I've tried to explain how the system works in this post and propose changes. I suppose as someone who already knows how it works, I'm fairly comfortable with it now and don't see a need for change from my own perspective. Still, as a future improvement, I think it's definitely something that alleviate some of the frustrations of newer players.
RE: League rankings + promotions: suggestions and ideas for change - Jackâ˘Sparrow - 10-03-2012 12:20 AM
(09-29-2012 09:29 PM)Luckymori Wrote: I agree. One thing I noticed when I started playing (I played my first ever matches in the league already) was that you can start more than five matches at the start and, as long as the first five matches that END were won, you'll be promoted to master league. So if I start 20 matches and let all of those where I don't have a great chance at winning stagnate I can be promoted to master without any actual skill. This must change.
Although this might seem like something that strongly affects the league, in reality all those losses at you've put on hold will all catch up to you. You can only leave a game sitting for four days before you lose it, and before long, you're bound to be booted back to a tier more reflective of your skill.
Also, OP, take it from me that the first five games have no more weight than is proportional... Technically the first one, two, three, and four games have even more weight than the fifth, but you don't get a rating until the fifth. The sixth game still bears a lot (and I mean a LOT) of weight, only slightly less than the fifth or fourth; as would the seventh and eighth and so on. I say this because when I first played ranked games (after many a friendly match to get my bearings on the game and its controls) I had a bit of a roller coaster ride around the leagues. I started five games all at once on a Monday (bear with me here...) and had three victories by that evening. Motivated by my winning streak, I started my sixth game and had a few turns. Tuesday morning saw me lose game number four, win game number 6 ("You've been placed in the Masters league") then lose game number 5 ("You've been demoted to Clever league") then win my next four games ("You've been promoted to Gifted") where I've been ever since. This, surely, shows that the following games still have a lot of weight on them, even after you've completed all your placement matches.
Note: I've been getting better at this game for the least few months but I've only had 5 active games going at a time, instead of the 20 that most people had (this was prior to the most recent update) and as a result have been climbing the ranks slowly. Whenever I get on a winning steak of just 5 or 6, I'm matched against a Master or even Super-Titan player, and subsequently lose (I think I have the skill to stay in Masters, if I get there, but not quite enough skill to get there) to be matched against more Gifted's until I get on another 5-6 winning streak.
I certainly don't think the matchmaking, promotion/demotion, or even placement match algorithms need changing. The visible "activity points" do what they are meant for, and the largest group of players (casuals) are catered for as a result. They encourage activity and continual play, and discourage players from trying to artificially modify their stats by ceasing to play when they think they're at the top of their winning streak (where more games would just mean losses from competitive players, and hence a drop in stats). On the other hand, the most competitive and highest skilled players are also catered for, in vying for the glorious and enviable "Top 100 of the week" positions.
If you truly think yours is an exceptional case, where you're not being matched with challenging players soon enough, send a message or bug report to OML and they'll check to make sure you're not encountering a bug or glitch.
RE: League rankings + promotions: suggestions and ideas for change - pookywb - 10-03-2012 03:43 AM
In the first 60 or 70 games I played, I probably only lost 4.
Since that, I've been beginning to get decently matched.
RE: League rankings + promotions: suggestions and ideas for change - Gf!sh - 10-03-2012 06:23 AM
I agree that the invisible rating should be made visible in some manner, perhaps as a 'Witterrating' of some sorts in the profile, however, the visible scores should should not be cut out.
A good idea might be to have the scores on the leaderboards consist out of a combination of the skill rating and win points. That way you can keep on encouraging players to keep playing, as Jack says, while keeping the scores (fairly) honest.
As for the promotion thing, you could have a system where every 2-3 weeks all #1s of a league play 5 or so matches against #100s from the league above. Whoever wins 3 or more of those matches gets promoted/not degraded, and vice verca if you lose a lot.
Example:
I play in Clever, and Jack in Gifted. I ended #1 last Sunday, while Jack ended #100. Now I play against Gifted (possibly Jack), while he matches Clevers. If I win 4 of these, while Jack only wins 2, I can take Jacks place in Gifted, and he degrades to Clever (sorry Jack!).
You may want to tweak the numbers, but in essence, this is my idea.
RE: League rankings + promotions: suggestions and ideas for change - Jackâ˘Sparrow - 10-03-2012 08:24 AM
(10-03-2012 06:23 AM)Gfich Wrote: As for the promotion thing, you could have a system where every 2-3 weeks all #1s of a league play 5 or so matches against #100s from the league above. Whoever wins 3 or more of those matches gets promoted/not degraded, and vice verca if you lose a lot.
The problem with this is that being #1 or #100 in a Division is only indicative of activity, not skill. The system currently in place is there for a purpose (which I believe is doing it's job), and there's a reason we aren't shown the hidden stats... Some people might not like it, but it is the way it is, and it's what keeps the majority of players happy.
And let's face it... From a business perspective, if you can't keep everyone happy, you just have do your best to keep most people happy. After all, happy players are more likely to buy stuff (hence the happy calm music you hear in shopping centres)
RE: League rankings + promotions: suggestions and ideas for change - Thrutchy - 10-03-2012 01:03 PM
I agree that match-making should be improved so that players get to a 50% win rate sooner. Mine is at 97% (excluding placement). Right now it seems like it takes about 30 games per league even with 100% wins.
The tournament I'm in is quite a bit more interesting since I'm losing some games and learning new strategies. It would be better if the normal matchmaking did this sooner.
RE: League rankings + promotions: suggestions and ideas for change - Xpander - 10-08-2012 01:42 AM
Great post and discussion. I think there is consensus that the matchmaking does need some kind of tweaking to improve. I'm not sure I care what kind of system they use as long as I get good match ups, but definitely more transparency will probably get rid of some people's frustration with the system.
As an aside, OP mentioned not being possible to be placed directly into ST, which I can say it is as I was placed there after matchmaking. I read at least one other person who was as well. Of course, I lost 6 and 7 and got bumped down to masters mostly due to inexperience and dumb noob mistakes lol. One thing that most people don't consider, that the previous poster mentioned, is the importance of your first maybe 10 games while the game zeros in on your rating. Specially during match making you should play your games one at a time as you are matched based on your current ratings and that will effect your gains and losses heavily. I know this sounds obvious, but it makes a huge difference as I have experienced due to numerous 2v2 ranking qualifiers.
Someone mentioned that 2v2 ranking should get linked to 1v1 or something for initial placement, sorry if I misread, but I couldn't disagree more with that. I've played against teams that had great 1v1 rating and were terrible at 2v2 as it is more about team play and cooperative planning.
In terms of requalifying or a rolling season for league, I think that's probably a good idea as activity level varies among players and reforming league placements on an annual basis is widely used in other games.