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+--- Thread: Scallywag Turtles (/showthread.php?tid=603)
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RE: Scallywag Turtles - aaronINdayton - 09-19-2012 06:44 AM
(09-19-2012 04:51 AM)Syvan Wrote: Using a soldier wall on sharkfood just behind that gap allows you to maintain a wall that cannot be broken in 1 turn. A buffed bombshell requires 2 gaps to be opened unless you can sneak a sniper into range, which is itself quite costly.
What about using a scrambler to take a solider, hit the bombshell, jump away, jump another solider in and attack bombshell again?
What about making a hole, moving a solider into the hole to attack bombshell, using mobi to port out, then move another solider to the hole to attack bombshell again?
RE: Scallywag Turtles - Syvan - 09-19-2012 07:00 AM
(09-19-2012 06:44 AM)aaronINdayton Wrote: What about using a scrambler to take a solider, hit the bombshell, jump away, jump another solider in and attack bombshell again?
What about making a hole, moving a solider into the hole to attack bombshell, using mobi to port out, then move another solider to the hole to attack bombshell again?
I can't comment on the scrambler. It seems super straightforward, but I haven't heard anyone actually have success with that tactic. I suspect that the wit-trade is not favorable since you have to sac a scrambler.
I can comment on the Mobi. The problem with using a mobi to attack a fortified position is that they are expensive to operate. The replays I've seen where people use that tactic end up spending too much. I feel like the best application of a Mobi is to apply pressure at the opponent's weakest point, rather than projecting power at their strongest.
RE: Scallywag Turtles - vivafringe - 09-19-2012 07:00 AM
(09-19-2012 06:44 AM)aaronINdayton Wrote: What about using a scrambler to take a solider, hit the bombshell, jump away, jump another solider in and attack bombshell again?
What about making a hole, moving a solider into the hole to attack bombshell, using mobi to port out, then move another solider to the hole to attack bombshell again?
The first one gets done on me a lot. Usually I get the better trade, because I can pretty much always kill their scrambler and they have to waste more wits moving than me. A lot of my S vs. F games end when they do this trade and I just run them over because I have a million more soldiers.
RE: Scallywag Turtles - garcia1000 - 09-19-2012 10:04 AM
Against scrambler, if they do that near your base, they lose out on the trade.
When into their territory, just put your bombshell one hex away from the front line. They cant do anything then.
Although FTA advantage has not been touched when it would be a simple 1P gets 3 wit on first turn adjustment. So do you really think they care about this bombshell thing? I think bug fixes, new races, etc are much higher priority for developers.
RE: Scallywag Turtles - Feedback101 - 09-19-2012 01:05 PM
I've enjoyed the discussion I started, thank you. I am referring to the small maps with this issue.
An early and skilful attack can prevent this strategy but this is about what to do if the wall is set up already because you lost an early skirmish or were too timid yourself (or both). A good wall may be impregnable, or you may win eventually but the point is both scenarios take well over 50 turns. Let's say your opponent takes more than a day to take their turn as well... games are meant to be fun and this does not qualify in my book. It makes me feel like I want to find another game sometimes. In my opinion, being bored to death by a scallywag turtle is not good for the overall wellbeing of Outwitters. You could rank quite highly by hardly ever losing a game, and boring people to death but this will not build the player base.
I will take a look at some of those replays where walls have been defeated, thanks for providing. I will take note of how many turns it took.
One more thing, I've got a lot of experience now (sigh) trying to break a wall with scrambler. Yes, it is quite do-able, but as mentioned above it is very difficult to keep your scrambler alive immediately afterward. So it is very uneconomical, and if you're losing the wit economic war, youre losing the game.
RE: Scallywag Turtles - Syvan - 09-19-2012 01:32 PM
Ok, I promised I would post a couple recent matches with bombshells. One note when watching these replays, I timed out several games a few weeks ago, so although I am playing super titans, I am playing lower levels than usual.
The first match is on Sweetie pie. The important thing to notice here is the move he does as he positions the bombshell after a turn of inactivity. If you notice, it isn't quite the best positioning, so I poked at the line with my soldier knowing the trade wasn't too bad. I had some saved wit and was able to destroy the bombshell. Unfortunately, since I had to use runners, the trade just barely comes out in my favor.
This match is also kind of nice since it illustrates the importance of defending that side wit space, since that's where most matches are won.
On long nine, this match against the same player positions a bombshell nestled into a corner. In this game, I forced him to spend wit away from the bombshell until finally he leaves an opening for me to strike at the bombshell. This game could have gone either way, I might have been able to win in the lower section, but it would have been close.
I think this is a nice example of forcing an opponent to make choices when spending their wit. When you give them choices, many players will leave openings you can exploit.
This one I posted earlier in the thread, but I was experimenting with scallywags. My opponent's strategy seems to be that he will build bombshells and use their range to leap-frog more bombshells. I went for the positional advantage to allow me cover to setup the strike on his base. My Adorables instincts kick in pretty strong and I keep trying to strike his bombshells to prevent them from getting into position. One thing to remember when fighting bombshells is to try to space your units in a way that limits splash and forces maximum wit usage on the counter-attack. I don't think my attacks were cost effective, but it worked out in the end.
I'd like to say that I knew bombshells had been made when I pushed their units, but I did not. I tried to scout using fairly even trades, but as you can see, even if you know the bombshell exists, it is hard to destroy and even when possible it can be challenging to trade favorably.
On the larger maps, I would recommend setting up a push in the attack lane away from the bombshell to prevent the opponent from being able to afford to move their shell into better positions. Currently, I think it is futile to attack into a bombshell line, so that should be avoided whenever possible.
RE: Scallywag Turtles - MrUseless - 09-20-2012 07:01 AM
I agree with Feedback101. I hate the long games with Bombshell turtles. Unless I'm the one doing the Bombshell turtle. But I also hate Runner spamming, so I guess I just can't be happy
I have successfully broken a few Bombshell defenses, but since I'm squarely in the middle skill levels (Gifted) I am assuming it is less than ideal positioning on my opponent's part rather than my own genius that allowed me to win.